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	<title>Comments on: ⇥ Selling software in an open-source world</title>
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	<link>http://blog.tabini.ca/2009/11/selling-software-in-an-open-source-world/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=selling-software-in-an-open-source-world</link>
	<description>Stumbling on since 1997</description>
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		<title>By: Ivo</title>
		<link>http://blog.tabini.ca/2009/11/selling-software-in-an-open-source-world/comment-page-1/#comment-616</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tabini.ca/?p=290#comment-616</guid>
		<description>Very nice analysis. It&#039;s very hard to be a product company in an open source world, especially if the open source communities beat every feature that you&#039;re trying to add. So far the only feature that is not available in a similar fashion is its integrated event monitoring. But for job queues, Gearman has quickly become a better alternative. (Amazon is not a valid alternative, it is not something you can easily integrate into an existing environment, it&#039;s more useful if everything you do is on Amazon).

I think the power is not only in support, but also in the bundling; though you could argue that if that is the added value, then integrating open source solutions would be a better, cheaper alternative for Zend.

Regarding the marketing: I think Zend is trying to address the mass market. And the majority of PHP developers is not at a level whree queueing systems are well known or common practice. The majority of PHP developers struggle with simple problems such as performance, and the way Zend explains the Job Queue might be appealing to those not yet familiar with a message queue but vaguely aware that taking things out of the main dispatch loop of your application might improve performance.  A conflict in their marketing efforts however is that its pricing is definitely not targeted at the masses. It&#039;s an &#039;enterprise product line&#039; and though their press releases support that claim, most enterprise users are fairly capable of installing and integrating the open source components.

Interesting challenge for them. Would be nice to get a response from their marketing or management team to get their views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice analysis. It&#8217;s very hard to be a product company in an open source world, especially if the open source communities beat every feature that you&#8217;re trying to add. So far the only feature that is not available in a similar fashion is its integrated event monitoring. But for job queues, Gearman has quickly become a better alternative. (Amazon is not a valid alternative, it is not something you can easily integrate into an existing environment, it&#8217;s more useful if everything you do is on Amazon).</p>
<p>I think the power is not only in support, but also in the bundling; though you could argue that if that is the added value, then integrating open source solutions would be a better, cheaper alternative for Zend.</p>
<p>Regarding the marketing: I think Zend is trying to address the mass market. And the majority of PHP developers is not at a level whree queueing systems are well known or common practice. The majority of PHP developers struggle with simple problems such as performance, and the way Zend explains the Job Queue might be appealing to those not yet familiar with a message queue but vaguely aware that taking things out of the main dispatch loop of your application might improve performance.  A conflict in their marketing efforts however is that its pricing is definitely not targeted at the masses. It&#8217;s an &#8216;enterprise product line&#8217; and though their press releases support that claim, most enterprise users are fairly capable of installing and integrating the open source components.</p>
<p>Interesting challenge for them. Would be nice to get a response from their marketing or management team to get their views.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Willbanks</title>
		<link>http://blog.tabini.ca/2009/11/selling-software-in-an-open-source-world/comment-page-1/#comment-609</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Willbanks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tabini.ca/?p=290#comment-609</guid>
		<description>Marco - I believe that we share exactly the same points here.  The funny thing is that I use the free version of zend server mainly for the maintainability aspect for the system administrator team that I work at.  Also the simplistic upgrades and everything that comes along with it.  However, I do turn off any zend server feature that they have and replace them with all of the open source versions:
APC vs. Zend Cache / Zend Optimizer+
XDebug vs. Zend Debugger

As for just about any message queuing type solution, they are essentially wrapping additional software and then providing a GUI to this (at least I would hope so).  Providing services is ultimately the goal that I foresee.  Say I get the director of technology at my desk stating how can we ensure we have support from a company behind the language, the answer is simple, get Zend involved.  However, asking me to use their IDE which only has a few simple things that I can get elsewhere and/or using the professional edition for several thousand a year when we already have most things configured idealistically is unreal.  Being a service company on the other hand shows more potential value and reason to come on board with potential solutions.  

Thanks for the article Marco!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marco &#8211; I believe that we share exactly the same points here.  The funny thing is that I use the free version of zend server mainly for the maintainability aspect for the system administrator team that I work at.  Also the simplistic upgrades and everything that comes along with it.  However, I do turn off any zend server feature that they have and replace them with all of the open source versions:<br />
APC vs. Zend Cache / Zend Optimizer+<br />
XDebug vs. Zend Debugger</p>
<p>As for just about any message queuing type solution, they are essentially wrapping additional software and then providing a GUI to this (at least I would hope so).  Providing services is ultimately the goal that I foresee.  Say I get the director of technology at my desk stating how can we ensure we have support from a company behind the language, the answer is simple, get Zend involved.  However, asking me to use their IDE which only has a few simple things that I can get elsewhere and/or using the professional edition for several thousand a year when we already have most things configured idealistically is unreal.  Being a service company on the other hand shows more potential value and reason to come on board with potential solutions.  </p>
<p>Thanks for the article Marco!</p>
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		<title>By: Manuel Lemos</title>
		<link>http://blog.tabini.ca/2009/11/selling-software-in-an-open-source-world/comment-page-1/#comment-608</link>
		<dc:creator>Manuel Lemos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tabini.ca/?p=290#comment-608</guid>
		<description>The right way to go about job queueing is Gearman. Coincidentally, Cesar Rodas just wrote an article on the PHPClasses blog on how to use Gearman with PHP and implement queues of jobs that run on the background.

http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/108-Distributing-PHP-processing-with-Gearman.html

That said, I agree with you that many of Zend customers only pay those license fees for Zend server to have peace of mind regarding the eventual need of support to solve problems that they cannot figure.

However, I also think that many IT departments that buy products from Zend else and other similar IT suppliers do not have the time or experience to find Open Source solutions that exist and can even provide a much more reliable solution for certain problems, like Gearman provides.

Actually, you did not even mention Gearman as a solution for long running job queuing solution. I suppose even you were not aware that Gearman could be used for the same purpose as Zend job queueing.

That is all right, nobody knows everything. I just think that many of IT suppliers like Zend are taking advantage of the ignorance of many of their customers about alternative solutions. I see that as a marketing deficiency of Open Source project developers that did not invest enough to have their Open Source products as well known among the corporate IT clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The right way to go about job queueing is Gearman. Coincidentally, Cesar Rodas just wrote an article on the PHPClasses blog on how to use Gearman with PHP and implement queues of jobs that run on the background.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/108-Distributing-PHP-processing-with-Gearman.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/108-Distributing-PHP-processing-with-Gearman.html</a></p>
<p>That said, I agree with you that many of Zend customers only pay those license fees for Zend server to have peace of mind regarding the eventual need of support to solve problems that they cannot figure.</p>
<p>However, I also think that many IT departments that buy products from Zend else and other similar IT suppliers do not have the time or experience to find Open Source solutions that exist and can even provide a much more reliable solution for certain problems, like Gearman provides.</p>
<p>Actually, you did not even mention Gearman as a solution for long running job queuing solution. I suppose even you were not aware that Gearman could be used for the same purpose as Zend job queueing.</p>
<p>That is all right, nobody knows everything. I just think that many of IT suppliers like Zend are taking advantage of the ignorance of many of their customers about alternative solutions. I see that as a marketing deficiency of Open Source project developers that did not invest enough to have their Open Source products as well known among the corporate IT clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Marco Tabini</title>
		<link>http://blog.tabini.ca/2009/11/selling-software-in-an-open-source-world/comment-page-1/#comment-605</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco Tabini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tabini.ca/?p=290#comment-605</guid>
		<description>@Richard: Absolutely—which is where the opportunity for adding value is in the OSS market. I&#039;d even argue that the value proposition is huge if you consider that those companies don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;want to&lt;/i&gt; have to know what APC is or how to install it—they want to focus on solving their own business problems. You&#039;re sort-of making my point there :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard: Absolutely—which is where the opportunity for adding value is in the OSS market. I&#8217;d even argue that the value proposition is huge if you consider that those companies don&#8217;t <i>want to</i> have to know what APC is or how to install it—they want to focus on solving their own business problems. You&#8217;re sort-of making my point there <img src='http://blog.tabini.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Richard Harrison</title>
		<link>http://blog.tabini.ca/2009/11/selling-software-in-an-open-source-world/comment-page-1/#comment-604</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 16:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tabini.ca/?p=290#comment-604</guid>
		<description>Hi Marco,

There is pretty large market of companies who don&#039;t have the right staff in-house to implement the open-source alternatives. It&#039;s easier/more reliable/cheaper for that company to purchase a product than get one of their developers to implement and open-source solution. It sounds shocking that companies are not able to install APC on their own servers, but I&#039;ve worked for ones where they hadn&#039;t even heard of opcode caching. 

I suppose it could be compared with food: we all have access to cheap raw ingredients that could be turned into delicious meals by a skilled chef… but often we take the easy route and buy the pre-prepared stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Marco,</p>
<p>There is pretty large market of companies who don&#8217;t have the right staff in-house to implement the open-source alternatives. It&#8217;s easier/more reliable/cheaper for that company to purchase a product than get one of their developers to implement and open-source solution. It sounds shocking that companies are not able to install APC on their own servers, but I&#8217;ve worked for ones where they hadn&#8217;t even heard of opcode caching. </p>
<p>I suppose it could be compared with food: we all have access to cheap raw ingredients that could be turned into delicious meals by a skilled chef… but often we take the easy route and buy the pre-prepared stuff.</p>
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